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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 10:11:58 GMT -5
So, for a player to be bought out on this site, they need to be placed on waivers. But you can't put a NMC on waivers because he has a NMC, which he has to waive to accept being moved down through waivers.
In the NHL, players can accept waiving NMC to be put on waivers in hopes their contract will be honored elsewhere, but a team does not have to put him on waivers to buy him out. Here's McKenzie's tweet confirming that.
So I don't get it here. I get that not all rules will be the same, but for a site that is so insanely in-depth, why are we hindering teams with downgrades and then using NMC to essentially cap strap them, and then also putting high price tags on higher draft choices to further exhaust our cap and make it more challenging to manage the team?
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Post by Minnesota Wild GM on Feb 9, 2020 11:11:29 GMT -5
When GMs want discounts in contracts, they sign a NMC.
The price of the discount is not being able to terminate the contract
Thats how it goes here
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 13:17:39 GMT -5
lol so you just create a thing where no matter what, NMC you are screwed so when new people join and acquire an NMC, you don't bother commenting that on the trades to let them know because your site has created an imaginary rule that isn't listed anywhere other than following the rabbit hole that players have to be waived, and NMC prevents waiving, and players won't waive NMC?
I specifically made 2 trades now acquiring guys that other people wanted to dump to help them because I had the cap to do so for a few seasons, and never knew this was a thing.
So hurray, I got screwed on RNH and Price. Pretty disheartening, thanks.
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Post by Minnesota Wild GM on Feb 9, 2020 13:24:42 GMT -5
lol so you just create a thing where no matter what, NMC you are screwed so when new people join and acquire an NMC, you don't bother commenting that on the trades to let them know because your site has created an imaginary rule that isn't listed anywhere other than following the rabbit hole that players have to be waived, and NMC prevents waiving, and players won't waive NMC?
I specifically made 2 trades now acquiring guys that other people wanted to dump to help them because I had the cap to do so for a few seasons, and never knew this was a thing.
So hurray, I got screwed on RNH and Price. Pretty disheartening, thanks.
Yeah basically I put all this time in this league to screw every one. It makes waking up everyday so much more worth it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 13:31:08 GMT -5
That's obviously not what I am saying. I am saying that the rule isn't clearly laid out, so teams who were rebuilding had opportunities of helping other people out and gaining draft picks or youth or whatever they are looking for, and when you have an invisible rule that others are taking advantage of that isn't really listed anywhere, and the site is so in depth that you assume rules are like the NHL if they aren't clearly listed here, then teams, like me, get taken advantage of while trying to actually help people.
Why else would any team take on a 10M price when in both eras of this site, you annihilated his rating, and then later admitted that your goaltender ratings are broken when Vezina nominated goaltenders got downgraded?
It's just shitty to sit here and go "I am having fun, and trying to be a GM that can help and cash in and then buy out later" when I can't, because a rule that isn't listed anywhere exists. It just sucks for me. I'm trying to build this team and I'm told now that I get downgrading players who are locked in and I can't do anything about it.
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Post by Ottawa Senators GM on Feb 9, 2020 13:42:15 GMT -5
@mike we do a compliance buyout every 5 seasons, you can buy out an NMC player then.
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Post by Minnesota Wild GM on Feb 9, 2020 14:05:01 GMT -5
That's obviously not what I am saying. I am saying that the rule isn't clearly laid out, so teams who were rebuilding had opportunities of helping other people out and gaining draft picks or youth or whatever they are looking for, and when you have an invisible rule that others are taking advantage of that isn't really listed anywhere, and the site is so in depth that you assume rules are like the NHL if they aren't clearly listed here, then teams, like me, get taken advantage of while trying to actually help people. Why else would any team take on a 10M price when in both eras of this site, you annihilated his rating, and then later admitted that your goaltender ratings are broken when Vezina nominated goaltenders got downgraded? It's just shitty to sit here and go "I am having fun, and trying to be a GM that can help and cash in and then buy out later" when I can't, because a rule that isn't listed anywhere exists. It just sucks for me. I'm trying to build this team and I'm told now that I get downgrading players who are locked in and I can't do anything about it. Sure but you paint the picture like I am creating advantages for some people and not others. That is disheartening. Yeah you are a new member, and you definitely picked this site up more quickly than others but it is clearly stated in the rules section under "Waivers"; " NMC - "No Movement Clause" gives PLAYERS FULL CONTROL on WAIVING for TRADES - *PLAYER CANNOT be placed on WAIVERS*"reference: hockleague.freeforums.net/thread/40/contracts-waivers-buy-outs-jrsNow as an ADMIN of this site, its unclear how I can make it any more transparent to new users coming in. Albeit the entire RULES section is under going a planned clean up these next 2 seasons, yet NMC limitations are clearly written in the foundation of the CONTRACTS, FA, WAIVERS, BUY-OUTS & JRS RULES thread, just like the other rules set that may or may not be authentic towards real NHL rules. I get it feels like you been slighted on those NMC trades, we have all been there, yet I assure you that everyone here is under the assumption that each GM is on the same page when making transactions. The main reason NMC are generalized here is because there are no contracts that have NTC/NMC/NWC kick in at the beginning, middle or end of a contract, even though that happens to be authentic. IF there was a member willing to step up and be the CONTRACT MODERATOR - they could maintain a thread tracking every player that has a modified contract clause. As Player Rep, I know I'd be more than willing to negotiate contracts that have a modified NTC/NMC/NWC, as the possibilities are almost endless and authentic. It would also prevent mishaps like this from happening, while not limiting a player/GM to be bound to a longterm contract like a Price/RNH I'd also be willing to renegotiate every NMC/NTC/NWC currently signed as long as the GM is realistic when re-negotiating the NMC/NTC/NWC term Fact is I don't have the focus to maintain a thread like that and would need a member to step up to do it. So we take the easy route instead and just generalize the NTC/NMC...always open to change though.
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Post by jmcook on Feb 9, 2020 14:11:24 GMT -5
@mike we do a compliance buyout every 5 seasons, you can buy out an NMC player then. Yes this is something that was put in to help us after we have been stupid with contracts from time to time
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 14:14:27 GMT -5
again it says cannot be waived, but in NHL you don't need to waive to buy out. Update your rule and say cannot be waived or bought out if player refuses to be waived?
I asked for waive and got ghosted.
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Post by Seattle Kraken GM on Feb 9, 2020 14:29:25 GMT -5
again it says cannot be waived, but in NHL you don't need to waive to buy out. Update your rule and say cannot be waived or bought out if player refuses to be waived? I asked for waive and got ghosted. Why would a player waive to be bought out?
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Post by Player Rep on Feb 9, 2020 14:53:53 GMT -5
again it says cannot be waived, but in NHL you don't need to waive to buy out. Update your rule and say cannot be waived or bought out if player refuses to be waived? I asked for waive and got ghosted. Here the process is put your player on waivers, regardless of season/offseason, for purpose of either MINORS or B/O. IF the player goes unclaimed, then MINORS or B/O hit occurs. Not going to add an accept/refusal component to waivers just cause its difficult enough to enforce NMC/NTC on trades. Never had one go smoothly and I doubt waivers would be the same. Theres already two unauthentic failsafes in place i. GMs can ask a player they are acquiring via trade to nullify their current NTC/NMC/NWC ii. COMPLIANCE B/O occurs twice per ERA (pre-S1 & pre-S6) Also, I still have the PM. All you stated was that you had two options since NYR are over the cap 1. B/O RNH 2. Put Kemmell in JRs and call up Ignatyev You then said you don't want you team labelled as a B/O destination (which is fair) & that you would have to still sign two more players in UFA at a combined 4.0M (very do able) I then replied with stating "Unfortunately RNH carries a NMC that would prevent him from receiving a Buy-Out. What I can do it look for a deal w/ a NON_GM TEAM and get you the required cap space to sign/call up whoever you need to for the season.." followed by a more than fair NON-GM deal to help you lose some cap. you then replied turning down the deal due to player preference (very understandable) while stating "The alternative is that i ask him to waive to become a free agent because his salary is an albatross contract and no one would want him at that cost for 4 more years" (not a bad take) Not sure if you noticed, but yesterday was Free Agent Frenzy. PR had over 160 PMs to go through to find the best deals for each player offered. That took me a straight 6 hour period sitting at my computer. Once the frenzy was over, your last PM came through (17 hours ago) and I saw it and logged off/on to my ADMIN profile to finish up some other roster work while thinking how to properly reply to your concern and 'alternative'. Unfortunately for your PM, when I logged back on to the PR account to finish the new COACHES thread, I passed out mid work. When I awoke and logged on here for the first time today, you had made a post already stating your concerns publicly (which I support), so I replied to you publicly to generate the discussion here. I did not ghost you, think people just forget I am not a machine even though my output is like one.
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Post by jmcook on Feb 9, 2020 14:54:15 GMT -5
again it says cannot be waived, but in NHL you don't need to waive to buy out. Update your rule and say cannot be waived or bought out if player refuses to be waived? I asked for waive and got ghosted. Why would a player waive to be bought out? Yes really, I guess he would really hate the team he is playing with and he would love to get very little money in his next contract to try and prove himself. You wouldn't see very many of these in the history of the NHL ever since caps have been around.
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Post by Old Greg on Feb 9, 2020 15:11:45 GMT -5
again it says cannot be waived, but in NHL you don't need to waive to buy out. Update your rule and say cannot be waived or bought out if player refuses to be waived? I asked for waive and got ghosted. Why would a player waive to be bought out? So there contract was terminated like Kovy and Byfuglien?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 15:49:23 GMT -5
i mean, does anyone want carey price at 10.5M? would they want him at 4-5 instead? that sort of thing.
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Post by St. Louis Blues GM on Feb 13, 2020 9:47:43 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of this tbh. I thought they could waive the NMC for waivers or for a buy-out, but I always thought a NMC prevented an unwaived buy-out.
To be fair Stars, every single cap league did it this way for nearly a decade now.
There's obviously different variations of some of the real rules , but I wouldn't mind this rule being implemented in the next era /grandfathered in after the comp buy-outs maybe.
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