|
|
Post by Ottawa Senators GM on Feb 11, 2019 20:27:34 GMT -5
This should have all been discussed when the league voted on it - not during an off-season when its already implemented. The system is now concrete, there will be no change. We're all just seeing now how it's working, really, this isn't what imagined it would be at all. It just seems like you go hog wild, and a little overboard, on the downgrades with a concrete scale that a ___ overall should put up X amount of points or they get downgraded, which should be on a sliding scale, particularly in such cases as it was this past season with production being down league-wide, and we have our league leaders in scoring being downgraded, defenseman that may not have had great production season but still finished out the season with a +24-25 and up, still gets downgraded cuz he didn't score. How is that right? Last time I checked defensemen are supposed to play defense, correct? Why are players getting downgraded for doing what they're supposed to be doing? It seems kind of backwards, don't you think? +/- is a garbage stat |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Upgrades
Feb 11, 2019 20:53:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 20:53:52 GMT -5
We're all just seeing now how it's working, really, this isn't what imagined it would be at all. It just seems like you go hog wild, and a little overboard, on the downgrades with a concrete scale that a ___ overall should put up X amount of points or they get downgraded, which should be on a sliding scale, particularly in such cases as it was this past season with production being down league-wide, and we have our league leaders in scoring being downgraded, defenseman that may not have had great production season but still finished out the season with a +24-25 and up, still gets downgraded cuz he didn't score. How is that right? Last time I checked defensemen are supposed to play defense, correct? Why are players getting downgraded for doing what they're supposed to be doing? It seems kind of backwards, don't you think? +/- is a garbage stat So you're also saying that the Selke is a garbage trophy then? Why even bother Norris trophy at that point since being defensive is apparently garbage? Better yet trade all your D for forwards and let them play D. 😂 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Upgrades
Feb 11, 2019 20:56:05 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 20:56:05 GMT -5
+/- is a garbage stat but we don't have many others to look at for DFD and TWF.
|
|
|
|
Post by St. Louis Blues GM on Feb 11, 2019 21:02:05 GMT -5
So you're also saying that the Selke is a garbage trophy then? Why even bother Norris trophy at that point since being defensive is apparently garbage? Better yet trade all your D for forwards and let them play D. 😂 I'm trading my D so I can play multiple goalies at once. |
|
|
|
Post by Nashville Predators GM on Feb 11, 2019 21:49:33 GMT -5
This should have all been discussed when the league voted on it - not during an off-season when its already implemented. The system is now concrete, there will be no change. We're all just seeing now how it's working, really, this isn't what imagined it would be at all. It just seems like you go hog wild, and a little overboard, on the downgrades with a concrete scale that a ___ overall should put up X amount of points or they get downgraded, which should be on a sliding scale, particularly in such cases as it was this past season with production being down league-wide, and we have our league leaders in scoring being downgraded, defenseman that may not have had great production season but still finished out the season with a +24-25 and up, still gets downgraded cuz he didn't score. How is that right? Last time I checked defensemen are supposed to play defense, correct? Why are players getting downgraded for doing what they're supposed to be doing? It seems kind of backwards, don't you think? Every new NHL game goes through ratings changes. There's been variations of the game that have super high ratings and other years, they are all low with only some players rated high. If majority of guys get downgraded due to a league wide low scoring season then that's fine, we will live with that. It's good to see ratings adjusted. Too many guys end up being rated way too high despite poor performances. Every sim league suffers the high rating saturation. Look at FA the past number of years - guys that are rated mid 80's are going for 1 year/1M contract or signing for the minimum because there is no interest. We're getting close to that where guys that are ranked mid 80's are kinda average now, 3rd liners in many cases. Things are fine. We all suffer the same and we all reap the rewards the same. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 21:52:36 GMT -5
So you're also saying that the Selke is a garbage trophy then? Why even bother Norris trophy at that point since being defensive is apparently garbage? Better yet trade all your D for forwards and let them play D. 😂 I'm trading my D so I can play multiple goalies at once. Nice. 😂 That'll give you a lock on the Jennings. 😜 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Upgrades
Feb 11, 2019 21:55:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 21:55:55 GMT -5
We're all just seeing now how it's working, really, this isn't what imagined it would be at all. It just seems like you go hog wild, and a little overboard, on the downgrades with a concrete scale that a ___ overall should put up X amount of points or they get downgraded, which should be on a sliding scale, particularly in such cases as it was this past season with production being down league-wide, and we have our league leaders in scoring being downgraded, defenseman that may not have had great production season but still finished out the season with a +24-25 and up, still gets downgraded cuz he didn't score. How is that right? Last time I checked defensemen are supposed to play defense, correct? Why are players getting downgraded for doing what they're supposed to be doing? It seems kind of backwards, don't you think? Every new NHL game goes through ratings changes. There's been variations of the game that have super high ratings and other years, they are all low with only some players rated high. If majority of guys get downgraded due to a league wide low scoring season then that's fine, we will live with that. It's good to see ratings adjusted. Too many guys end up being rated way too high despite poor performances. Every sim league suffers the high rating saturation. Look at FA the past number of years - guys that are rated mid 80's are going for 1 year/1M contract or signing for the minimum because there is no interest. We're getting close to that where guys that are ranked mid 80's are kinda average now, 3rd liners in many cases. Things are fine. We all suffer the same and we all reap the rewards the same. Not really when the 2nd leading scorer in the entire league gets downgraded and he's no where near retirement yet. There's nothing fine about that. lol |
|
|
|
Post by Player Rep on Feb 11, 2019 22:34:44 GMT -5
Every new NHL game goes through ratings changes. There's been variations of the game that have super high ratings and other years, they are all low with only some players rated high. If majority of guys get downgraded due to a league wide low scoring season then that's fine, we will live with that. It's good to see ratings adjusted. Too many guys end up being rated way too high despite poor performances. Every sim league suffers the high rating saturation. Look at FA the past number of years - guys that are rated mid 80's are going for 1 year/1M contract or signing for the minimum because there is no interest. We're getting close to that where guys that are ranked mid 80's are kinda average now, 3rd liners in many cases. Things are fine. We all suffer the same and we all reap the rewards the same. Not really when the 2nd leading scorer in the entire league gets downgraded and he's no where near retirement yet. There's nothing fine about that. lol You need to think what the league will look like in Season 25 with the system, not what it looks like after the 2nd off-season of using it. The system dictates the progress of the players, while the players progress does not dictate the system. Imagine Svechnikov as 95 on C2C only putting up 79 PTS...thats a ridiculous thought because he consistently put up PPG numbers every season due to his ELITE RATING. Its irrational to flex and manipulate the system to reflect every immediate season - would render any system useless Even contracts are adapting due to the system. GMs are no longer handing out term like its herpes. This leads to more power and influence for every GM in their GM duties, coaching decisions & ability to develop prospects while also leaving the door open to very exciting UFA classes. Scoring was down this year and the system responded correctly. I will guarantee we will have at least 3+ players with PPG numbers next season due to the appropriated system response, when this past season we only had one player with 80PTS. If not, then I will trade Dahlin away for a 2024 5TH to the first buyer. The whole league can read this - You have my word. Now, let time solve your concern. Just be patient. This is a balancing process that will not level out for another few seasons - as I have consistently stated since the system was introduced as a vote. Don't worry, be happy. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Upgrades
Feb 11, 2019 23:10:58 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 23:10:58 GMT -5
Shotty being first buyer.
|
|
|
|
Upgrades
Feb 12, 2019 11:42:40 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Ottawa Senators GM on Feb 12, 2019 11:42:40 GMT -5
So you're also saying that the Selke is a garbage trophy then? Why even bother Norris trophy at that point since being defensive is apparently garbage? Better yet trade all your D for forwards and let them play D. 😂 [br LMAO what? That not what I'm saying at all. Let me put it in terms you understand. Your boy Brian Boyle is -15 this season. He's a career -44. Does that mean he's bad defensively? Nope. In his case, he gets a lot of D-zone starts, plays with poor offensive players, and often lines up against the other teams top players. A good shift for him is getting the puck out of his end then changing. Obviously if a player gets this usage, the other team is going to score more goals against him than his line scores themselves. Hence, +/- is a garbage stat. You can either agree with me, or you can say Brian Boyle with -15 is garbage defensively. You can't have both. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 11:47:46 GMT -5
No to mention, empty net goals count against +/- and bad line changed affect it to. If you want to know how good a player is you look at Corsi and Fenwick. As well as their defensive and offensive zone starts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Upgrades
Feb 12, 2019 18:54:18 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 18:54:18 GMT -5
No to mention, empty net goals count against +/- and bad line changed affect it to. If you want to know how good a player is you look at Corsi and Fenwick. As well as their defensive and offensive zone starts. Fuck I hate this corsi and other made up numbers to better skew the arguement for your sake. You don't need special numbers to know if a player sucks or not. My god this new generation of people is a fuck show. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Upgrades
Feb 12, 2019 19:18:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:18:34 GMT -5
Lol, sorry for using smarter ways to make the game easier to track. There's no confirmation bias when it comes to numbers, the "eye test" is the dumbest way to say if a player is good or not.
It's not our generation that's ruining it, it's the older generation's inability to adapt to change.
|
|
|
|
Post by St. Louis Blues GM on Feb 12, 2019 20:59:17 GMT -5
Every stat has its limitations, but to completely ignore ones with proven predictability isn't a great angle.
IMO, possession numbers are at their worst for D-man, at least for certain roles. The analytics community will be quick to tell you how great corsi etc is, and how you can be a small team like Tampa and win, but at the same time completely ignore the likes of Coburn & Girardi on their blueline. Girardi was considered one of the worst D in the league prior to his arrival in Tampa, mainly due to Corsi numbers and Zone Starts.
Obviously, the guy isn't a stud D by any means, but it's interesting to me that the analytics community have completely ignored cases like this. Tampa has valued size on their blueline this entire decade, dating back to the likes of Brewer.
I'd love to see numbers #s on what those type of D, with bad possession metrics, are doing better than others on elite teams. I'd imagine it's a lot of breakups/denials, and being used more as 'time-killers.' They obviously have their role on the PK.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Upgrades
Feb 12, 2019 21:31:12 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 21:31:12 GMT -5
Every stat has its limitations, but to completely ignore ones with proven predictability isn't a great angle. IMO, possession numbers are at their worst for D-man, at least for certain roles. The analytics community will be quick to tell you how great corsi etc is, and how you can be a small team like Tampa and win, but at the same time completely ignore the likes of Coburn & Girardi on their blueline. Girardi was considered one of the worst D in the league prior to his arrival in Tampa, mainly due to Corsi numbers and Zone Starts. Obviously, the guy isn't a stud D by any means, but it's interesting to me that the analytics community have completely ignored cases like this. Tampa has valued size on their blueline this entire decade, dating back to the likes of Brewer. I'd love to see numbers #s on what those type of D, with bad possession metrics, are doing better than others on elite teams. I'd imagine it's a lot of breakups/denials, and being used more as 'time-killers.' They obviously have their role on the PK. That's exactly it. Most of those guys are penalty killers so their CF% is lower than it should be. The best stat to look at is 5v5 CF%. |
|
